Doubles Goshawk

3 February 2008 9 AM. RVP
2 mature Goshawks; the bird were circling with and over Ravens. 4 photos were taken - all of them were useless. While I was try to work with the camera - no attention was paid to the size of the Goshawks; therefore, I could not sex the Goshawks. OT- about 2 minutes. Also - about 5 minutes later, I found, perched on a telephone pole, a large raptor; naked eye. The bird was the size of a Red-Tailed Hawk. The tail was not visible, therefore, appeared to a "short-tailed Goshawk". The chest was grey-white; dorsal area silver-grey. The bird flew straight away - no long tail was visible - meaning the bird could be a short-tailed female Goshawk (mature). The wing beats were stiff, as a Cooper's Hawk. But, the wings were too long, and the wing beats too deep to be a Cooper's. Also, the bird was too large to be a Cooper's. Interestingly, the bird never went into a glide. If this was a Goshawk - then it was the first mature Goshawk I have seen, with this type of wing beats. Observation Time- about 30 seconds (flight).